The C Word

Kloe and Solange give an update on their respective journeys while Liz and Phaedra talk to Bethany Jo Mikelait and Mariana Onofri about how the profession (and accreditation) works in Canada and Brazil. Also tune in for a Dear Jane about gently refusing to work on an object.

00:00:23 Solange and Kloe’s updates
00:15:29 Who are our co-hosts?
00:16:32 How it works in Canada
00:31:28 How it works in Brazil
00:45:48 How can we be regulated BUT also inclusive?
01:01:51 Dear Jane

Show Notes:
– S13E02 Accreditation (Part 1): https://thecword.show/2023/04/05/s13e02-accreditation-part-1/
– Canadian Association of Professional Conservators: https://capc-acrp.ca/
– Bethany’s practice: https://www.theartconservatory.ca/
– Follow Mariana on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianaonofri.restauro/
– Canadian Conservation Institute: https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute.html
– Q&A with Indigenous lawmaker Célia Xakriabá: https://news.mongabay.com/2023/02/if-brazil-starts-with-us-why-did-we-arrive-last-qa-with-indigenous-lawmaker-celia-xakriaba/
– Regulamenta Ja’s Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/regulamentaja_cr/
– News in Conservation article by Sayang Rehan: https://www.iiconservation.org/publications/nic/news-conservation-issue-102-june-july-2024
– Museums Association Ethics Committee: https://www.museumsassociation.org/campaigns/ethics/committee/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Kloe Rumsey, Phedra Komodromou, Liz Hébert, Bethany Jo Mikelait, Mariana Onofri, and Solange Masher.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Echoes of the past, dead objects, and creepy stores – Solange, Kloe and Jenny have a lot on their minds in this year’s spooky special! Jenny also visits a newly opened paranormal museum, Liz reviews an enchanting chapter from a sumptuous tome, and Jenny reads a book of ghost stories set in heritage locations.

00:34 Have you heard of BevArt?
04:59 What are ‘ghost signs’ exactly?
16:17 Solange’s haunted attic dwelling
21:19 We get philosophical about the lives of objects
27:52 Spooky stores
33:01 Jenny visits Rowtons’ Museum of the Paranormal and Spirituality
39:59 Jenny reviews ‘Eight Ghosts’
43:00 Liz reviews ‘Art as a Spell’
47:01 Patreon teaser – Phedra’s mystery

Show Notes:
– BevArt: https://www.bev.art/
– BevArt’s buy-back scheme: https://www.bev.art/blog/bev-art-launches-sensor-buy-back-program
– Ghost signs according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_sign
– Historic England Ghost Sign project: https://historicengland.org.uk/whats-new/features/ghost-signs/
– Park Hill graffiti: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Love_You_Will_U_Marry_Me
– S01E02 Human Remains: https://thecword.show/2017/03/15/s01e02-human-remains/
– The Unbinding: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27485427/
– Lyrics to Puff the Magic Dragon: https://genius.com/Peter-paul-and-mary-puff-the-magic-dragon-lyrics
– Rowtons’ Museum of the Paranormal and Spirituality: https://rowtonsmuseum.co.uk/
– Witchcraft – The Library of Esoterica: https://www.taschen.com/en/books/esoterica/08019/witchcraft-the-library-of-esoterica/
– Eight Ghosts book project via English Heritage: https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/halloween/eight-ghosts/ and https://www.english-heritageshop.org.uk/eight-ghosts-paperback
– Buy the book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eight-Ghosts-English-Heritage-Stories/dp/1910463736

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Kloe Rumsey, and Solange Masher.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

What’s it like to work on glass? Jenny and Phedra are joined by emerging conservator Terri Costello as they explore this fragile but ancient material. Also tune in for Solange’s interview with artist Freya Laughton about preserving memories in glass.

01:40 Phedra’s adventures with Roman glass
04:30 All the exciting places we find it in collections
11:36 Trying out glassblowing and involving expert makers
19:03 Chemistry, imperfections and tools
34:00 Colourful chemistry and stresses in glass
41:56 Getting started in glass
43:31 Interview with Freya Laughton
54:44 Patreon shout-out

Show Notes:
– Costello Conservation: https://costelloconservation.com/
– Go follow Terri on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/t.costello.conservation/
– Glass and ceramics programme at University of Amsterdam: https://www.uva.nl/shared-content/programmas/en/masters/conservation-and-restoration-of-cultural-heritage/study-programme/glass-and-ceramics/glass-and-ceramics.html
– Egyptian faïence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_faience
– Glasriket: https://glasriket.se/en/
– Blown Away on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80215147
– Allard Pierson Museum: https://allardpierson.nl/en/
– Corning Museum of Glass: https://home.cmog.org/
– The Glass Heart exhibition: https://twotempleplace.org/exhibitions/the-glass-heart/
– A beautiful infographic about coloured glass: https://www.compoundchem.com/2015/03/03/coloured-glass/
– Fractography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractography
– The Techniques of Roman-Period Glassblowing: https://romanglassblowing.cmog.org/
– Seafire Design: https://www.seafiredesign.co.uk/
– Follow Freya on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seafire_design

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Phedra Komodromou, and Terri Costello.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Fess up: when did you last lose something? Liz, Phedra, Kloe and Jenny explore what ‘loss’ can mean in collections, in heritage generally, and in conservation.

00:01:10 What do we mean by lost?
00:02:13 Misplaced, disassociated, data loss
00:05:59 Kloe is a fan of the hard copy
00:11:53 Theft in museums
00:15:37 Does loss enhance the value of art?
00:17:56 The motivation behind a theft matters
00:21:30 Freeports and their implications
00:29:09 ‘Redistributed’ or looted heritage
00:34:09 Climate change brings loss
00:36:44 Custodial neglect in our personal lives
00:50:14 Have you lost something during treatment?
01:04:07 Support us on Patreon

Show Notes:
– Dissociation as an agent of deterioration: https://www.digitwithraven.com/single-post/agents-of-deterioration-dissociation
– ‘Thief at the British Museum’ podcast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001zlz0/episodes/player
– The theft of the Mona Lisa in 1911: https://www.historytoday.com/archive/months-past/mona-lisa-stolen-louvre
– Cyprus receives artefacts back: https://cyprus-mail.com/2024/07/22/returned-items-reflect-struggle-to-recover-cultural-heritage/
– Geneva Free Port article: https://www.thecollector.com/geneva-free-port-the-worlds-most-secretive-art-warehouse/
– Acceptance In Lieu: https://www.artscouncil.org.uk/supporting-arts-museums-and-libraries/supporting-collections-and-cultural-property/acceptance-lieu
– Art UK database: https://artuk.org/
– Hillwood Estate, Museum & Gardens: https://hillwoodmuseum.org
– S11E01 Conservation and Conflict: https://thecword.show/2022/03/23/s11e01-conservation-and-conflict/
– Pontic Greeks on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks
– Saving Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Online: https://www.sucho.org/
– Kloe’s event on costume care: https://dancejoy.co.uk/
– S04E07 Tools Galore: https://thecword.show/2018/12/12/s04e07-tools-galore/
– S14E06 Musical Instruments: https://thecword.show/2024/05/30/s14e06-musical-instruments/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Phedra Komodromou, Liz Hébert, and Kloe Rumsey.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

We recap our experiences at Icon24: Conservation for Change as we reflect on the conference and our first nearly-full-team meet-up! Phedra also interviews Patrick Whife from Icon about organising the event. Finally we all share our various summer adventures and plans for the autumn!

00:02:07 We went to a conference (you might’ve guessed)
00:08:11 Audio adventures from Icon24
00:42:41 Phedra has a great idea (please steal it)
00:44:13 Creating a better experience online
00:50:32 We’d have Icon Loughborough or Icon Doncaster
00:53:06 Interview with Patrick Whife
01:13:16 What have Jenny, Phedra and Kloe been doing this summer?
01:19:22 Solange’s summer update
01:21:45 And a summer update from Liz
01:23:55 Support us on Patreon

Show Notes:
– Icon24 details: https://www.icon.org.uk/events/icon-2024-conference-conservation-for-change.html
– Assassins Creed Odyssey: https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/game/assassins-creed/odyssey
– Book a tour with Liz: https://www.thoseamsterdames.com/
– Buy something from our shop: https://thecword.show/shop/
– Send us a donation: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/thecwordpodcast

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Phedra Komodromou, and Kloe Rumsey.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

In this year’s travel special we go on FOUR individual journeys: a sort of deconstructed road trip. Kloe goes to sunny Spain, Liz takes her bike to the Rijks Museum, Jenny darts between museums in Sweden, and finally Phedra goes on a watery adventure in Cyprus. Don’t miss the return of Cass Fino-Radin at the end of the episode, when they interview emerging conservation professionals at the recent AIC conference in Salt Lake City. Sit back and enjoy the journey!

00:00:36 What’s a deconstructed road trip exactly?
00:04:06 Kloe excitedly explores Spain
00:21:44 Liz visits the Rijks Museum
00:34:40 Jenny wanders around Sweden
00:53:01 Phedra goes underwater in Cyprus
01:10:45 Cass interviews ECPs at AIC

Show Notes:
– S11E08 Manx Road Trip Special: https://thecword.show/2022/06/29/s11e08-manx-road-trip-special/
– Museo Arqueológico Nacional: https://www.esmadrid.com/en/tourist-information/museo-arqueologico-nacional
– Fancy restaurant alert (Corral de la Morería Gastronómico): https://guide.michelin.com/gb/en/comunidad-de-madrid/madrid/restaurant/corral-de-la-moreria-gastronomico
– Alcalá de Henares, Spain: https://artsandculture.google.com/story/agXhkBx8wyUD-w?hl=en
– Rijks Museum: https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en
– Van Gogh Museum: https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en
– Stedelijk Museum: https://www.stedelijk.nl/en
– Operation Night Watch: https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/stories/operation-night-watch
– Those Amsterdames tours: https://www.thoseamsterdames.com/
– Carl Larsson-gården, Sundborn: https://www.carllarsson.se/en/
– Dalarna in Sweden: https://www.visitdalarna.se/en
– Falu Gruvmuseum: https://www.falugruva.se/en/
– Mining world heritage site of Falun: https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1027/
– Christopher Polhem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Polhem
– Polhem B&B: https://polhembedandbreakfast.se/en/
– VRAK Museum of Wrecks: https://www.vrak.se/en/
– Paphos, Cyprus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paphos
– Tomb of the Kings: https://www.visitcyprus.com/index.php/en/discovercyprus/culture/sites-monuments/253-tombs-of-the-kings
– MUSAN Museum of Underwater Sculpture Ayia Napa: https://musan.com.cy/
– Jason deCaires Taylor: https://underwatersculpture.com/
– Phedra’s diving instructor: https://www.instagram.com/marishaa_cy
– S13E07 Time-Based Media Conservation: https://thecword.show/2023/06/15/s13e07-time-based-media-conservation/
– Art and Obsolescence podcast: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/
– AIC 52nd Annual Meeting (Salt Lake City 2024): https://www.culturalheritage.org/events/annual-meeting/past-meetings/52nd-annual-meeting-in-salt-lake-city-(2024)

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson and Kloe Rumsey.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Kloe and Phedra are joined by Jill Carruthers in an episode all about newer, fresh-faced museums. What’s it like opening a brand NEW museum? Phedra talks to Matt Turtle from the Museum of Homelessness AND Eleni Loizides from the Cyprus Archaeological Museum, while Solange sits down to chat with James Hogg from the Yorkshire Natural History Museum. Also tune in for a review of ‘Conservation Skills for the 21st Century’ from Jenny!

00:01:20 What’s a new museum?
00:12:34 How Showtown came to be
00:31:56 Making a museum yours
00:37:24 Redefining museums
00:42:05 Is less more?
00:49:54 Reminder!
00:51:19 Interview with Matt Turtle
01:04:09 Interview with James Hogg
01:17:10 Interview with Eleni Loizides
01:26:11 Review of ‘Conservation Skills for the 21st Century’

Show Notes:
– Showtown: https://www.showtownblackpool.co.uk/
– Grand Egyptian Museum influencer video Phedra mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nwZkVldpvI
– Quiz mentioned by Jill: https://www.mhminsight.com/culture-segments/survey/
– Join us on Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/thecword
– Get your tickets for Icon24: https://www.icon.org.uk/events/icon-2024-conference-conservation-for-change.html
– Museum of Homelessness: https://museumofhomelessness.org/
– Neo Jurassica: https://neojurassica.org/
– Yorkshire Natural History Museum: https://ynhm.org/
– Cyprus Archaeological Museum teaser videos made by the architect: https://youtu.be/iJrI4tOUDmQ and https://youtu.be/Vc8HjbVdmsI
– Conservation Skills for the 21st Century: https://www.routledge.com/Conservation-Skills-for-the-21st-Century-Judgement-Method-and-Decision-Making/Caple-Williams/p/book/9780367443320

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Kloe Rumsey, Phedra Komodromou and Jill Carruthers.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Liz and Phedra are joined by Jonathan Santa Maria Bouquet as they talk about the conservation of musical instruments: from tuning and treatment considerations to ethics and philosophy. Also tune in (pun somewhat intended) for an interview from Solange with Emma Hardy, violin maker and repairer. There’s even some lovely music at the end!

00:22 More announcements!
02:26 Origin story
07:01 The perils and pleasures of working in a fishbowl
09:38 Tuning and a crash course in ‘temperament’
17:10 Working with musicians
19:29 To play or not to play?
23:04 Seeing the history of an instrument
27:55 Treatment considerations and the need for balance
31:07 A place for copies and reconstructions
37:17 Patreon appeal
37:42 Interview with Emma Hardy and music from Rosie Butler Hall

Show Notes:
– Nominate someone for the Marsh Conservation Awards 2024: https://www.icon.org.uk/impact/the-marsh-conservation-awards.html
– Join us at Icon24 in July: https://www.icon.org.uk/events/icon-2024-conference-conservation-for-change.html
– Get in touch with Jonathan: https://www.ed.ac.uk/profile/jonathan-smb
– St Cecilia’s Hall Concert Room and Music Museum: https://www.stcecilias.ed.ac.uk/
– More about the St Cecilia collection: https://collections.ed.ac.uk/mimed/
– ICOM International Committee of Museums and Collections of Instruments and Music (CIMCIM): https://cimcim.mini.icom.museum/
– St Cecilia’s Hall sound library: https://digital.eca.ed.ac.uk/soundlibraries/
– Hardy Violins in Sheffield: https://hardyviolins.co.uk/

More resources:
– To play or not to play: http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/journals/conservation-journal/issue-15/to-play-or-not-to-play-the-ethics-of-musical-instrument-conservation/
– Focus on historic musical instruments: https://www.akbild.ac.at/en/institutes/conservation-restoration/study-focus/objects-focus-on-wood-historic-musical-instruments
– Italian degree in musical instrument conservation: https://restauro.cdl.unipv.it/it
– On the conservation of musical instruments (CIMCIM): https://cimcim.mini.icom.museum/conservation-of-musical-instruments/
– Preservation Perspectives blog: https://libraryblogs.is.ed.ac.uk/conservation/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Liz Hébert, Phedra Komodromou and Jonathan Santa Maria Bouquet.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Jenny, Solange and Phedra are joined by Luisa Casella as we talk about AI: how can conservators use these tools and what are their pros and cons? Luisa tells us about CRAIG, a large language model for conservators, while Jenny frets about the climate impact. Also tune in for a review of a recent lecture on AI usage from Solange and Phedra!

01:35 What do we mean by AI?
04:11 Building a LLM for conservators
13:33 Climate impact and ethical concerns
20:28 Sophisticated users needed
24:13 Future impact on conservation
35:25 Best AI uses we’ve seen
37:46 How is CRAIG different from ChatGPT?
39:42 Teaser: Interview with Robert Erdmann
40:18 Review of Dr Nicholas Eastaugh’s recent AI lecture
47:34 Patreon appeal

Show Notes:
– S01E09 Museum Pi: https://thecword.show/2017/06/21/s01e09-museum-pi/
– S06E03 The One with the Arduino: https://thecword.show/2019/10/16/s06e03-the-one-with-the-arduino/
– Follow Luisa and her conservation tips here: https://linktr.ee/conservation_tips
– CRAIG: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-P8SfTCDEO-craig-conservation-restoration-ai-generative-tool
– ChatGPT by OpenAI: https://chatgpt.com/
– BBC article on Sarah Silverman that Jenny mentioned: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66164228
– AIC conservation wiki: https://www.conservation-wiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
– AI and the Climate Crisis (lecture recording): https://goldsmiths.cloud.panopto.eu/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=609824f6-5e69-4241-9bd4-b13a00d3d05b
– AI’s Growing Carbon Footprint: https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2023/06/09/ais-growing-carbon-footprint/
– More on energy usage of AI: https://www.washington.edu/news/2023/07/27/how-much-energy-does-chatgpt-use/
– BBC article on AI reading ancient burnt scrolls: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68221243
– Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwHBfYsHR0UBAiA_VhMeOIw
– Paintings Group lecture mentioned: https://www.icon.org.uk/events/paintings-group-art-authorship-and-ai-for-good-or-ill.html

Other AI resources:
– Luisa’s Substack article on AI: https://conservationtips.substack.com/p/ai-in-art-conservation
– Heritage Fund briefing on AI: https://www.heritagefund.org.uk/about/insight/research/artificial-intelligence-digital-heritage-leadership-briefing
– Museums Association on AI: https://www.museumsassociation.org/category/ai/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Solange Masher, Jenny Mathiasson, Phedra Komodromou and Luisa Casella.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Jenny and Liz talk to Dr Marysia Tarnowska about their journey into heritage science from a background in chemistry: from molecular bonds to leather deterioration! Jenny also talks to Dr Josep Grau-Bove from the Icon Heritage Science Group about how we can communicate better as both conservators and scientists. Finally, tune in for a review of ‘Soft Paint and the Care of Paintings’ from Liz!

00:01:10 From chemistry to museum adventures
00:07:35 A project is born
00:14:53 Scientific papers are an endurance sport
00:17:23 Ways into heritage science
00:19:08 Communicating with conservators
00:24:02 Reaching scientists early on
00:34:28 Museums doing research
00:40:53 Getting involved with scientists
00:43:42 University is where it’s at
00:47:13 Don’t forget about the Marsh Awards
00:48:00 Patreon shout-out
00:48:37 Interview with Dr Josep Grau-Bove
01:03:11 Review: Soft Paint and the Care of Paintings

Show Notes:
– Find Marysia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marysia-tarnowska/
– Follow Marysia on Twitter: https://twitter.com/supra_marysia
– Blog entry by Lucia Burgio at the V&A: https://www.vam.ac.uk/blog/caring-for-our-collections/a-week-in-the-life-of-a-va-heritage-scientist-intro
– Red rot (Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_rot
– Museum of Leathercraft: https://museumofleathercraft.org/
– Leather Conservation Centre: https://leatherconservation.org/
– Institute for Creative Leather Technologies: https://www.northampton.ac.uk/research/research-institutes-and-centres/institute-for-creative-leather-technologies/
– S09E06 Leather: https://thecword.show/2021/06/02/s09e06-leather/
– ICPMS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductively_coupled_plasma_mass_spectrometry
– /r/ArtConservation: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtConservation/
– Icon Heritage Science Group: https://www.icon.org.uk/groups-and-networks/heritage-science.html
– European Research Infrastructure for Heritage Science (E-RIHS): https://www.e-rihs.eu/
– MoLab: https://www.iperionhs.eu/molab/
– AHRC (Arts and Humanities Research Council): https://www.ukri.org/councils/ahrc/
– Research at Amgueddfa Cymru: https://museum.wales/research/
– Cultural Heritage Agency of the Netherlands: https://english.cultureelerfgoed.nl/
– Marsh Conservation Awards 2024: https://www.icon.org.uk/impact/the-marsh-conservation-awards.html
– Dr Josep Grau-Bove at UCL: https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/33855-josep-graubove
– UCL Institute for Sustainable Heritage: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/heritage/ucl-institute-sustainable-heritage
– Dr Katherine Curran at UCL: https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/34356-katherine-curran/
– Soft Paint and the Care of Paintings book: https://archetype.co.uk/our-titles/soft-paint-and-the-care-of-paintings/?id=450

Previous ‘Working With’ episodes:
– S07E04 Working With Techs: https://thecword.show/2020/05/27/s07e04-working-with-techs/
– S09E01 Working With Front of House: https://thecword.show/2021/03/24/s09e01-working-with-front-of-house/
– S10E02 Working With Curators: https://thecword.show/2021/09/29/s10e02-working-with-curators/
– S11E03 Working With Learning: https://thecword.show/2022/04/20/s11e03-working-with-learning/
– S13E04 Working With Adult Learning: https://thecword.show/2023/05/03/s13e04-working-with-adult-learning/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Liz Hébert, Jenny Mathiasson, and Dr Marysia Tarnowska.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.