The C Word

Jenny, Solange and Phedra are joined by Luisa Casella as we talk about AI: how can conservators use these tools and what are their pros and cons? Luisa tells us about CRAIG, a large language model for conservators, while Jenny frets about the climate impact. Also tune in for a review of a recent lecture on AI usage from Solange and Phedra!

01:35 What do we mean by AI?
04:11 Building a LLM for conservators
13:33 Climate impact and ethical concerns
20:28 Sophisticated users needed
24:13 Future impact on conservation
35:25 Best AI uses we’ve seen
37:46 How is CRAIG different from ChatGPT?
39:42 Teaser: Interview with Robert Erdmann
40:18 Review of Dr Nicholas Eastaugh’s recent AI lecture
47:34 Patreon appeal

Show Notes:
– S01E09 Museum Pi: https://thecword.show/2017/06/21/s01e09-museum-pi/
– S06E03 The One with the Arduino: https://thecword.show/2019/10/16/s06e03-the-one-with-the-arduino/
– Follow Luisa and her conservation tips here: https://linktr.ee/conservation_tips
– CRAIG: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-P8SfTCDEO-craig-conservation-restoration-ai-generative-tool
– ChatGPT by OpenAI: https://chatgpt.com/
– BBC article on Sarah Silverman that Jenny mentioned: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66164228
– AIC conservation wiki: https://www.conservation-wiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
– AI and the Climate Crisis (lecture recording): https://goldsmiths.cloud.panopto.eu/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=609824f6-5e69-4241-9bd4-b13a00d3d05b
– AI’s Growing Carbon Footprint: https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2023/06/09/ais-growing-carbon-footprint/
– More on energy usage of AI: https://www.washington.edu/news/2023/07/27/how-much-energy-does-chatgpt-use/
– BBC article on AI reading ancient burnt scrolls: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68221243
– Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwHBfYsHR0UBAiA_VhMeOIw
– Paintings Group lecture mentioned: https://www.icon.org.uk/events/paintings-group-art-authorship-and-ai-for-good-or-ill.html

Other AI resources:
– Luisa’s Substack article on AI: https://conservationtips.substack.com/p/ai-in-art-conservation
– Heritage Fund briefing on AI: https://www.heritagefund.org.uk/about/insight/research/artificial-intelligence-digital-heritage-leadership-briefing
– Museums Association on AI: https://www.museumsassociation.org/category/ai/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Solange Masher, Jenny Mathiasson, Phedra Komodromou and Luisa Casella.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Jenny and Liz talk to Dr Marysia Tarnowska about their journey into heritage science from a background in chemistry: from molecular bonds to leather deterioration! Jenny also talks to Dr Josep Grau-Bove from the Icon Heritage Science Group about how we can communicate better as both conservators and scientists. Finally, tune in for a review of ‘Soft Paint and the Care of Paintings’ from Liz!

00:01:10 From chemistry to museum adventures
00:07:35 A project is born
00:14:53 Scientific papers are an endurance sport
00:17:23 Ways into heritage science
00:19:08 Communicating with conservators
00:24:02 Reaching scientists early on
00:34:28 Museums doing research
00:40:53 Getting involved with scientists
00:43:42 University is where it’s at
00:47:13 Don’t forget about the Marsh Awards
00:48:00 Patreon shout-out
00:48:37 Interview with Dr Josep Grau-Bove
01:03:11 Review: Soft Paint and the Care of Paintings

Show Notes:
– Find Marysia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marysia-tarnowska/
– Follow Marysia on Twitter: https://twitter.com/supra_marysia
– Blog entry by Lucia Burgio at the V&A: https://www.vam.ac.uk/blog/caring-for-our-collections/a-week-in-the-life-of-a-va-heritage-scientist-intro
– Red rot (Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_rot
– Museum of Leathercraft: https://museumofleathercraft.org/
– Leather Conservation Centre: https://leatherconservation.org/
– Institute for Creative Leather Technologies: https://www.northampton.ac.uk/research/research-institutes-and-centres/institute-for-creative-leather-technologies/
– S09E06 Leather: https://thecword.show/2021/06/02/s09e06-leather/
– ICPMS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductively_coupled_plasma_mass_spectrometry
– /r/ArtConservation: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtConservation/
– Icon Heritage Science Group: https://www.icon.org.uk/groups-and-networks/heritage-science.html
– European Research Infrastructure for Heritage Science (E-RIHS): https://www.e-rihs.eu/
– MoLab: https://www.iperionhs.eu/molab/
– AHRC (Arts and Humanities Research Council): https://www.ukri.org/councils/ahrc/
– Research at Amgueddfa Cymru: https://museum.wales/research/
– Cultural Heritage Agency of the Netherlands: https://english.cultureelerfgoed.nl/
– Marsh Conservation Awards 2024: https://www.icon.org.uk/impact/the-marsh-conservation-awards.html
– Dr Josep Grau-Bove at UCL: https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/33855-josep-graubove
– UCL Institute for Sustainable Heritage: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/heritage/ucl-institute-sustainable-heritage
– Dr Katherine Curran at UCL: https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/34356-katherine-curran/
– Soft Paint and the Care of Paintings book: https://archetype.co.uk/our-titles/soft-paint-and-the-care-of-paintings/?id=450

Previous ‘Working With’ episodes:
– S07E04 Working With Techs: https://thecword.show/2020/05/27/s07e04-working-with-techs/
– S09E01 Working With Front of House: https://thecword.show/2021/03/24/s09e01-working-with-front-of-house/
– S10E02 Working With Curators: https://thecword.show/2021/09/29/s10e02-working-with-curators/
– S11E03 Working With Learning: https://thecword.show/2022/04/20/s11e03-working-with-learning/
– S13E04 Working With Adult Learning: https://thecword.show/2023/05/03/s13e04-working-with-adult-learning/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Liz Hébert, Jenny Mathiasson, and Dr Marysia Tarnowska.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Join Jenny, Kloe and Liz as they explore historic houses across the world, their unique charms, and quirky challenges. Phedra whisks us away to a sun-soaked historic house museum in Cyprus, while Liz delves into the meticulous conservation efforts at Sir John Soane’s Museum with Jane Wilkinson. Finally, Kloe has a chat with Helen Antrobus about what it’s like working in the National Trust.

00:00:28 What’s a historic house?
00:03:18 Are all of them posh?
00:07:03 Nature and heritage in harmony
00:09:30 Our favourites
00:16:30 Jenny feels like an alien
00:23:14 Mitigating damage
00:24:56 Houses still in use
00:31:12 Challenges and temptations
00:37:21 What era are we interpreting or preserving?
00:40:57 Pests and damp patches
00:44:28 Patreon shout out
00:45:00 Interview with Jane Wilkinson
00:56:00 Phedra’s visit to Lefkara
01:07:17 Interview with Helen Antrobus

Show Notes:
– National Trust: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/
– NT annual report Jenny quoted: https://documents.nationaltrust.org.uk/story/annual-report-2023/page/1
– Historic Houses (UK): https://www.historichouses.org/
– Rembrandt House, Amsterdam: https://www.rembrandthuis.nl/en/
– Kettles Yard, Cambridge: https://www.kettlesyard.cam.ac.uk/history-of-kettles-yard/
– Pollok House, Glasgow: https://www.nts.org.uk/stories/pollok-house-major-refurbishment
– FAI or the National Trust for Italy: https://fai-international.org/
– Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum: https://www.gardnermuseum.org/
– Gawthorpe Hall, Ightenhill: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/liverpool-lancashire/gawthorpe-hall
– Chatsworth, Bakewell: https://www.chatsworth.org/
– Yin Yu Tang at Peabody Essex Museum: https://www.pem.org/yin-yu-tang-a-chinese-home
– St Fagans National Museum of History in Wales: https://museum.wales/stfagans/
– Beamish, the Living Museum of the North, in England: https://www.beamish.org.uk/
– Museo Horne: https://www.museohorne.it/en/
– Holker Hall in Cumbria: https://www.holker.co.uk/
– West Dean College: https://www.westdean.ac.uk/
– Barnes foundation move in Philadelphia: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/arts/design/judge-rules-the-barnes-can-move-to-philadelphia.html
– S10E04 Halloween special with haunted properties: https://thecword.show/2021/10/28/s10e04-halloween-special/
– Old World Wisconsin: https://oldworldwisconsin.wisconsinhistory.org/
– Sir John Soane’s Museum: https://www.soane.org/
– The book mentioned by Liz: https://shop.soane.org/collections/books-and-maps/products/a-complete-description-of-sir-john-soanes-museum-24
– The Local Museum of Traditional Embroidery and Silversmith-work, Lefkara (for the virtual tour!): https://larnakaregion.com/directory/product/local-museum-traditional-embroidery-and-silversmith-work-lefkara
– S10E02 Working with Curators: https://thecword.show/2021/09/29/s10e02-working-with-curators/
– Visiting the National Trust conservation studios: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/search?type=place&query=conservation
– Hidden Treasures of the National Trust on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001lttx

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Liz Hébert, Kloe Rumsey, and Jenny Mathiasson.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Liz and Phedra join forces with freelance paintings conservator Alexis Drapanas as they tackle an ECP special! Phedra also interviews conservator Kerith Koss Schrager and intern Adrienne Gendron about health and safety for emerging professionals. And don’t forget to tune in for a Dear Jane about getting into some more unusual specialisms!

00:00:45 Introducing our ECP hosts
00:08:02 Straight from university to private practice
00:09:15 What does ‘emerging’ mean to you?
00:16:01 Let’s talk money!
00:24:37 Paperwork in real life
00:29:22 Job searching across Europe
00:37:44 How to break down the door
00:45:45 Patreon teaser
00:46:00 Interview with Kerith Koss Schrager and Adrienne Gendron
01:00:57 Phedra’s recommended listening
01:03:19 Dear Jane

Show Notes:
– Alexis’ website: https://www.drapanas.com/
– Follow Phedra on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phedrakom/
– Cardiff University: https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/course/conservation-of-objects-in-museums-and-archaeology-bsc
– Lorenzo de Medici Institute: https://ldminstitute.com/department/restoration/
– Follow Liz on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lizhebertxcvi
– Follow Liz on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lizhebertxcvi/
– Conversation Conservation on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conversationconservation/
– AIC Health and Safety Wiki: https://www.conservation-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Health_%26_Safety
– Health and safety beginner’s guide: https://www.conservation-wiki.com/w/images/1/1d/H%26S_BeginnerGuide.pdf
– Hazards in collections eTool: https://hazardsincollections.org.uk/
– 6 session C2C Course – Health and Safety in Collections Care: https://learning.culturalheritage.org/products/c2c-care-course-health-and-safety-in-collections-care

Phedra’s recommended listening:
– S01E05 Emerging Professionals: https://thecword.show/2017/04/26/s01e05-emerging-professionals/
– S02E04 Emerging Professionals 2: https://thecword.show/2017/10/04/s02e04-emerging-professionals-2/
– S13E02 Accreditation Part 1: https://thecword.show/2023/04/05/s13e02-accreditation-part-1/
– S12E06 Time Management: https://thecword.show/2022/11/23/s12e06-time-management/
– S12E01 Job Interviews: https://thecword.show/2022/09/14/s12e01-job-interviews/
– S11E04 Building a Business: https://thecword.show/2022/05/04/s11e04-building-a-business/
– S10E05 Aches and Pains: https://thecword.show/2021/11/10/s10e05-aches-and-pains/
– S05E05 Portfolio Extravaganza: https://thecword.show/2019/05/15/s05e05-portfolio-extravaganza/
– S04E02 Parenthood: https://thecword.show/2018/10/03/s04e02-parenthood/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Liz Hébert, Phedra Komodromou, and Alexis Drapanas.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

Meet the dream team! It’s a crowded recording session today: Jenny and Kloe ask their new colleagues Liz, Phedra, and Solange about their new roles and their favourite objects, tools, and adhesives. What ARE a few of our favourite things? Also tune in for a review of ‘Conservation of Books’ from Solange!

00:02:16 Who’s Liz?
00:04:22 And who’s Phedra?
00:07:00 Aaand who’s Solange?
00:09:38 Experimentation ahead
00:14:10 Favourite Instagram accounts
00:17:08 Favourite objects
00:25:31 Least favourite objects!
00:34:02 Can you have a favourite pest…?
00:37:33 Favourite adhesive
00:53:38 Favourite tools
01:04:17 Review: Conservation of Books

Show Notes:
– Follow Liz on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lizhebertxcvi
– Follow Liz on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lizhebertxcvi/
– Liz’s website: https://readymag.website/u1771381592/4680039/
– The EC Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/35cVChweygfrY8A7o4LLiw or https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ecpodcast/id1507272772
– Future Conservator Podcast: https://soundcloud.com/user-979095571
– Follow Phedra on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phedrakom/
– Follow Solange on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/liber.conservation
– Solange’s business: https://liberconservation.co.uk/
– You should definitely support us on Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/thecword
– Squeaky Conservator on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@squeakyconserves
– Our new Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_c_word_podcast
– International Mount Makers Forum: https://www.instagram.com/internationalmountmakersforum/
– Classical Studies Memes for Hellenistic Teens: https://www.instagram.com/csmfht/
– Fun Conservators: https://www.instagram.com/fun_conservators/
– Reversible Zine: https://www.instagram.com/reversiblezine/
– The Lady Art Handler: https://www.instagram.com/theladyarthandler/
– Conservation in Focus: https://www.instagram.com/conservationinfocus/
– Bridget Mitchell: https://www.instagram.com/bridget.mitchell_/
– S10E05 Aches and Pains: https://thecword.show/2021/11/10/s10e05-aches-and-pains/
– CAC-ACCR Conference (Keeping it Real: Conservation in Practice): https://www.cac-accr.ca/our-conferences/
– Conservation of Books (edited by Abigail Bainbridge): https://www.routledge.com/Conservation-of-Books/Bainbridge/p/book/9780367754907

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Kloe Rumsey, Solange Masher, Liz Hébert, and Phedra Komodromou.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2024.

In this special bonus episode we make a couple of overdue announcements, take you with us to an award ceremony in Cardiff, and profess our undying love for our listeners. Would you like to join us on The C Word team? Get in touch!

00:57 We’re having a break – and we’re recruiting!
07:31 We’ve got an award
09:21 Recording from The 30(ish) Awards
17:50 Dear Jane teaser
18:51 Patreon shout out

Show Notes:
– Recruitment page: https://thecword.show/recruitment/
– The 30(ish) Awards winners: https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/alumni/features/30ish-awards-2023
– Dear Jane cotton bud video: https://youtu.be/lZg8hNajdQg

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson and Kloe Rumsey.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2023.

In this one we talk to Professor Aviva Burnstock about what paintings can be and we chat with Polly Saltmarsh about communicating conservation and the joys of sticky toffee pudding sauce. Also tune in for a review of ‘On Canvas: Preserving the Structure of Paintings’ by Stephen Hackney from Kloe.

03:48 When is a painting a painting?
10:05 On the nature of painted surfaces
13:13 How students might approach a painting
16:20 A chat about varnish
27:39 The joy of microscopy
28:39 Gut feelings and forgeries
34:06 Interview with Polly Saltmarsh
48:03 Review: On Canvas
52:28 Patreon appeal

Show Notes:
– The Courtauld Institute of Art: https://courtauld.ac.uk/
– Art and Artifice fakes exhibition: https://courtauld.ac.uk/whats-on/art-and-artifice-fakes-from-the-collection/
– Fake or Fortune: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01mxxz6
– Polly’s website: https://www.paintingsconservation.co.uk/
– Reopening the National Portrait Gallery: https://www.npg.org.uk/blog/road-to-reopening
– On Canvas: https://shop.getty.edu/products/on-canvas-preserving-the-structure-of-paintings-978-1606066263?variant=29175364157517

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Kloe Rumsey, and Aviva Burnstock.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2023.

We’re joined by special guest host Cass Fino-Radin as we talk about time-based media: what it can be, what the challenges are, and what we can do to preserve it. From mechanical components to maintaining software, we geek out about everything that’s wonderful about this type of conservation. Also tune in for a review of poetry pamphlet ‘Accessioning’ by Charlotte Wetton.

00:21 A long-time spreadsheet idea
02:44 A potted history of time-based media (maybe)
05:41 Conservation of performance art
10:26 The wildest thing about time-based media
12:40 Cass’ origin story
22:36 Blurry objects and things going off
27:54 More suggestions for what time-based media is
30:55 Old vs new technology
36:56 What makes a good time-based media conservator?
40:03 Review: Accessioning
44:54 Patreon appeal

Show Notes:
– Art and Obsolescence podcast: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/
– Cass’ website: https://finoradin.info/
– Pip Laurenson: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/art-history/people/academic-staff/professor-pip-laurenson
– Episode with Glenn Wharton: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/episodes/005-glenn-wharton
– MoMA Media and Performance department: https://www.moma.org/about/curatorial-departments/media-performance
– S05E03 Contemporary Art: https://thecword.show/2019/04/17/s05e03-contemporary-art/
– Episode with Annet Dekker: https://www.artandobsolescence.com/episodes/043-annet-dekker
– Rhizome: https://rhizome.org/
– AIC 40th annual meeting in Albuquerque (2012): https://www.culturalheritage.org/docs/default-source/publications/periodicals/annual-meeting/2012-annual-meeting-abstracts.pdf?sfvrsn=1dbb1699_8
– Cass’ company Small Data Industries: https://smalldata.industries/
– Cooper Hewitt: https://www.cooperhewitt.org/
– S09E05 Dynamic Objects: https://thecword.show/2021/05/19/s09e05-dynamic-objects/
– S06E03 The One with the Arduino: https://thecword.show/2019/10/16/s06e03-the-one-with-the-arduino/
– S01E09 Museum Pi: https://thecword.show/2017/06/21/s01e09-museum-pi/
– Time-based media according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_and_restoration_of_time-based_media_art
– Planetary app case study: https://www.cooperhewitt.org/2019/05/16/planetary-cooper-hewitts-first-ios-app/
– Accessioning poetry pamphlet: https://theemmapress.com/shop/poetry/pamphlets/accessioning/

Support us on Patreon! http://www.patreon.com/thecword

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Kloe Rumsey, and Cass Fino-Radin.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2023.

In this episode Jenny and Kloe address a correction before launching into a takeover special: join Kloe, Nerys Rudder and Jane Henderson as they go to the ‘Changing the World: Approach, Strategy and the Future of University Museums’ UMG conference and run around the newly refurbished Manchester Museum.

03:55 A correction from Jane
07:13 Other comments from listeners
12:19 Three conservators go to a conference
55:28 Patreon appeal

Show Notes:
– Manchester Museum: https://www.museum.manchester.ac.uk/
– UMG Spring Conference 2023: http://universitymuseumsgroup.org/events/save-the-date-manchester-2023/
– S13E02 Accreditation Part 1: https://thecword.show/2023/04/05/s13e02-accreditation-part-1/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Kloe Rumsey, Jane Henderson and Nerys Rudder.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2023.

Together with special co-host Alison Lister we explore the private sector: from our workspaces to how we learn on the job. Join us for a catch-up on Jenny’s adventures in business, along with Kloe’s commercial experience and Alison’s passionate call for us all to share more. Bridget Mitchell tells us about finding joy in your business and the power of positive thinking. Also tune in for an audio tour of Jenny’s workspace and a round-up of the Museums + Heritage Show in London.

00:00:42 Wait, are we talking business again?
00:05:16 The old museum vs business conundrum
00:09:27 The importance of Time
00:15:48 What does a conservation space look like?
00:18:42 Why we need to make a fuss
00:27:55 Private practice is people work
00:33:13 How could we be supported to share more?
00:35:18 Training and professional development
00:46:26 The future of private practice
00:49:49 Jenny’s round-up of the Museums + Heritage Show and Icon meet-up
00:55:18 Interview with Bridget Mitchell
01:04:43 Tour of Jenny’s workspace
01:12:07 Patreon appeal

Show Notes:
– S11E04 Building a Business: https://thecword.show/2022/05/04/s11e04-building-a-business/
– S02E03 Freelancing: https://thecword.show/2017/09/22/s02e03-freelancing/
– Alison’s company: https://textileconservation.co.uk/
– S09E08 Dyes in Conservation: https://thecword.show/2021/06/30/s09e08-dyes-in-conservation/
– Secrets of the National Trust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrets_of_the_National_Trust
– Hidden Treasures of the National Trust (the one Jenny actually meant): https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/discover/film-tv/hidden-treasures-of-the-national-trust
– Secrets of the Museum: https://www.vam.ac.uk/info/secrets-of-the-museum
– The Repair Shop: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08l581p
– Kickstart Scheme: https://www.kickstart-uk.com/
– S01E01 Demographics: https://thecword.show/2017/02/15/demographics/
– Museums + Heritage Show: https://show.museumsandheritage.com/
– Plowden winner Julie Dawson: https://www.icon.org.uk/resource/icon-emeritus-member-julie-dawson-wins-prestigious-plowden-medal-for-conservation.html
– Marsh Charitable Trust awards: https://www.icon.org.uk/resource/winners-marsh-awards-for-conservation-2023.html
– Follow Bridget on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/arcapreservation/

Support us on Patreon!

Hosted by Jenny Mathiasson, Kloe Rumsey, and Alison Lister.

Intro and outro music by DDmyzik, used under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

Made available under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license.

A Wooden Dice production, 2023.